Battle tower has absolutly nothing to do with the competitive tiers -.-;;

WiFi battle tower certainly utilizes the tier system.


Again, a tier is not a measure of usage, but of how well it is.
Lets say that the great pokemon website has declared April 2008 as Shedinja month, and its use increases - does that mean shedinja is now OU? absolutely not.

I posed the exact same question to mekkah of Smogon and they told me that tiers were in fact based on usage. I think the example I used was Banette, and they said that if everyone used one in their team, it would be an OU poke. The separation between BL and OU is solely on usage, whereas the separation between those two and UU / Uber was based on metagame breaking. I asked because I was having an argument over whether or nor Raikou was BL because it was crap or because it wasn't used as much. I was arguing because it was crap as opposed to usage, and it turned out I was wrong...

Outside of those two, however, it doesn't really do anything. So, while Garchomp may suddenly decrease entirely in usage, it wouldn't fall down to NU, lol.

I'd like to know some non-debatable OU's for some inspiration.

Blissey.
Garchomp.
Heracross.
Swampert.
Electivire.
Gyara/Sala, based on the turn of the metagame (expected by this June).

Those are the only ones that will stay for a long time.

Salamence might fall due to frailty, Dragonite might fall due to slower, and being outclassed by Salamence.
Tyranitar may be back in Limbo for uber.
Dugtrio can't revenge kill everything. In f
Lucario may see a fall, but sort of unlikely.
Infernape is frail. And, it may very well soon be a more priority move metagame, where it dies.

Swampert is possibly going to be wiped out if Grass Knot becomes any more popular. But, sandstorm immunity, rock resist (thus stealth rock), and electric immunity makes it a really good player. The stats are phenomenal all around.
Electivire may face stiffer competition if any event pokemon are released (thus, it would be reduced to shreds if they surpass it).
Donphan stands a good chance at staying in OU, for being able to break dusknoir. Same with starmie (those are the 2 premier spinners of the game).
Dusknoir is threatened, as people are finding others that fill the role of anti-spin better (like sub skarm). Its possible that the 2 above may hinge on Dusky's presence, and the 3 above will rely on spiking to still be a major player (spikes, stealth rock, toxic spikes).

Abomasnow has been in limbo, so Mamoswine may fly into OU (unlikely, but still).

in my opinon umbreon is still rly good
1) it has extraordiniaryt base defensive stats and hp

2) it can survive its weakness by baton passing in to a strong psychic or ghost

3) wish is still a good move for recovering ur sweepers and tanks

Umbreon cannot survive it's weaknesses.Specsmence takes a huge chunk out of it with a neutral attack,Draco Meteor.Of course,almost everything gets 2HKOed or 1HKOed by that.Heracross will soon kill it with Close Combat with Flame Orb or Swords Dance or both.It's too slow to possibly Baton Pass without massive damage.Please say something with proper knowledge and proof.It's tier fits it perfectly.

Vaporeon/Jolteon/Espeon all bp better things than mean look - substitutes (huge ones I might add), Speed, and Special attack (respectively).

It should also be noted that if umby is the last one standing, it won't be able to attack

Its stopped by Taunt, dead in its tracks
If you can rest, you beat it.

whatevs1234 has a great piont, umbreon pwns if you use it right it has only one major weekness and good defences as well as annoyer moves lke toxic first turn, protect the second turn, and moonlight or wish for the third and just repeat steps 2 and 3 and he pwns and is hard to take down.

articuno is to good for BL
mind reader=next move definite hit
sheer cold=1 hit KO
so mind reader+sheer cold=guarenteed KO unless sturdy

The problem is that 1-hit KO moves aren't typically allowed in competive play. Also his 4x weakness to rock makes articuno hurt in stealth rocks.

You can use all lower tier pokemon in uppertiergames. So it's not like you can only use NU in NU game. I, for example use still the time UU team in Uber/OU netbattle. So take that error out of there.

And to repair the explanations, which are pretty much wrong:
OU: Means pokemon is OverUsed, this has nothing to do with power.
BL: Bans pokemon from UU, But aren't yet used too much, so they are not OVERused. BL pokemon can be just as good as OU.
UU: Again, UnderUsed, goes by Usage. This has nothing to do how good pokemon is. If Claydol became popular, it would be OU.
NU: Same as above. NeverUsed, nothing to do with power. If Delibird would became popular, it would surely be OU.
Limbo goes between UU and NU, but has yet been in building state on Smogon.

let me rephrase that-

alakazam is strong enough to be overused. He vanquishes tyranitar, swampert, and gyrados with ease. at least mine does.

He's a great sp. sweeper but he's a perfect glass cannon, anything that can absorb a special hit can bring him down, esp. priority moves. Substitute helps with that though



That tier list on page 1 is quite off by today's usage, At least according to smogon, Aero is UU and Alakazam is BL Any mods willing to update?

No I'll get around to it sometime soon. If you wanted to be a big help, you could organize the complete current tier list and PM it to me so I can just copypasta it into the first post. ;o +5 coolness points if you do. :0

In light of this topic, I propose that garchomp be moved to the uber tier...


1.) Sand Veil completely violates the rules of DT/OHKO bans.
2.) It is very bulky, very fast, and a very hard hitter on all spectrums.
3.) With Yache Berry and Sand Veil boosted evasion, Starmie fails to 3HKO on most occasions with an ice beam.
4.) It is overcentralising the metagame. Based on a definition of OU vs BL being 75% usage, Garchomp completely overcentralises the metagame. The tier list is looking more and more like RBY, and its SICK

At least T-tar can be revenge killed by Arena Trap CB Dugtrio's EQ, or a well placed hit from something of the like. This shark needs to be banned, or others need to be unbanned.

Tests have begun on a modded server with the banning of Garchomp and Deoxys E. The metagame has changed so much, many saying it is about as balanced as before Yache Chomp was found plausible. (That was when people found out Garchomp with a yache berry would surive 2 ice beams from most pokemon).

Proposition accepted. Moving Garchomp to ubers list for Psypoke.

inb4 bawwwstorm

Skymin to be banned to ubers- over 100 base hp, 127 base speed, base 75 defenses.

Serene grace, air slash, leech seed, substitute. It needs HP gorund for a sweep, but oh well...
WAIT - It gets EARTH POWER. EARTH POWER?????? ****.

Now, it 2hkos Blissey with seed flare and OHKOs Heatran with land power. It gets growth for a posible OHKO on blissey.


If it gets Icy wind, it might be too powerful for ubers...


Edit: also push for Shaymin ground form to be moved up for limbo BL/OU for further testing - it gets earth power, air slash, seed flare, and every move skymin does. I hurts almost as bad with 100 base everything, because it is bulky enough to growth up.

Skymin is probably Uber, and Shaymin is already BL. It doesn't need to be moved up.

We need an adequate way to determine OU and BL status.

I heard some sort of new test, which would be on Modded server or ladder (Preferably Suspect), that would fuse BL and UU, and they would test Pokemon that would be unbalanced. This way they would decide new BL/UU.

With Garchomp moved up to the uber tier I wonder if the bullet punch Scizor might ever join it in the future. Any comments on this?

Give it three months, and the tier list may be completely overhauled.


Smogon is working on something right now - testing anything not OU or Uber and seperating it from their. Have any of you noticed in the last three weeks that Aero was lowered from BL to UU? Many say that if we just test those not in OU in a metagame all their own (as in, pretending that the OU and Uber pokemon don't exist at all), we can actually define who is too strng for UU, who rightfully belongs in UU, and who doesn't appear at all (NU)?

I lol'd that both Alakazam and Kingdra are now OUs (Pokes that I've used forever.)